Trying to decide whether this or the XGS PIC is best for me

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Blue Protoman
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Trying to decide whether this or the XGS PIC is best for me

Post by Blue Protoman »

Hello! I'm new here. I'm getting into the hardware aspects of computer science, and decided to check out two things; the Uzebox and the XGameStation 16-bit PIC. (I also bought an Arduino. :) ) Initially the HYDRA as well, but I ruled that out as I didn't like not being able to use C or Linux. Now, I know that the Uzebox is more open source, free (as in freedom), etc. and the XGS is more commercial-oriented with professional guides. I'm not trying to incite flame wars over freedom or profit, I'm just trying to get a sense of the distinction, as I'm on something of a budget. (By the way, if it helps, I'm a high school senior who's been studying C++ since early this summer.)

I do know that the Uzebox has an emulator, don't think the XGS PIC does.

I know that the PIC is more powerful. I'm more concerned about the differences in actual development. Limitations, APIs, whether I'd have to consider or ignore certain things, etc. Of course, having to buy that extra programmer to use this thing on Linux (Ubuntu 11.04 for me) raises the price a bit, so that may be tricky.

Any thoughts or details about things that set the two apart from each other? I'm only able to buy one, and I don't wanna just go by which is cheaper.
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nebososo
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Re: Trying to decide whether this or the XGS PIC is best for me

Post by nebososo »

I don't remember much about the XGS, but...

I reasons I chose the Uzebox were:
- Free as in freedom
- C
- Community

In my opinion, the limitations make it funner to program and
in the end it's about being commercial-oriented or not.

Anyway, I recommend reading the wiki to take a look at what you'd be programming and some of the decisions you're going to make if you choose the Uzebox.

Specialy these ones:

Most of the API functions
A simple tutorial on how to generate maps and use them on your game
Interestings tricks you're likely to want to use
Blue Protoman
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Re: Trying to decide whether this or the XGS PIC is best for me

Post by Blue Protoman »

Hm, I hadn't actually seen the second two links, thanks. I'll check 'em out, but I dunno if this'll make or break anything.
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uze6666
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Re: Trying to decide whether this or the XGS PIC is best for me

Post by uze6666 »

Personally, I never played with any XGS. But they seems well done and comes with a big book. So I guess the choice depends on your level of comfort with micro-controllers, electronics and programming. For the easy way, you may want to go with the XGS as a learning tool. However, consider that, even after many years it has almost no games, no emulator or significant community support.

On the other hand, the Uzebox was meant to be a community driven project. The platform uses a simple, open hardware design that almost anybody can understand and build. You can even sell your own version like the Fuzebox, AVCore and EUzebox makers did. This in turn broadens the numbers of people developing for the platform and leads to where we are today: Over 60 games and demos, a full emulator with GDB support, SD card gameloader, tools for music and graphics and lots of documentation and tutorials. If you spend the time to code a game you'll be rewarded by showing it off to community of peers that knows the effort it entails. And that's very rewarding. Personally, it's why I kept going on this project without making a cent of profit.

On a closing note, there's also the MCU itself. I've heard many times AVRs are much more fun to program than PICs...well, in assembler at least. ;)

Cheers,

-Uze
Blue Protoman
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Re: Trying to decide whether this or the XGS PIC is best for me

Post by Blue Protoman »

Hm... I should look at the XGS documentation a bit more carefully, then. I am pretty new to the hardware aspects of it, yes. I should find an XGS game's source and compare with that of a Uze game. Problem is, I'm at school, and they obviously block the XGameStation site because of the name.

Also, define "much more fun to program than PICs...well, in assembler at least". I am more in this to learn than to do serious programming (at least for a few years). I don't wanna get both because I don't wanna spend my money on two things that are similar in purpose.
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uze6666
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Re: Trying to decide whether this or the XGS PIC is best for me

Post by uze6666 »

Well, I can't comment personally since I didn't code on PICs, but take my last comment with a grain of salt. I think that's mostly a question of taste, but I always liked the Atmel stuff. Free software tools, inexpensive programmers, community of hackers, etc. Perhaps it's no coincidence they were used on the Arduino. ;)

-Uze
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DaveyPocket
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Re: Trying to decide whether this or the XGS PIC is best for me

Post by DaveyPocket »

I actually do own an XGS PIC 16-bit device. When I got this, it came with just about everything (The device, a controller, cables, power supply, manual and programming guide, 1GB SD card, PICkit 2 programmer to program the device, CD loaded with content).

The programming guide describes EVERYTHING about the XGS PIC covering the schematic, to how video generation is done, to programming a few small games and demos. I haven't played around with it too much, but too me, I think it would take a little while to learn how to program.

Both the XGS and the Uzebox use C. Uzebox games can be compiled with GCC and a few other tools, while the PIC uses MPLAB C compiler (I don't quite know if PIC C programs can be compiled with GCC or another compiler). One benefit of the Uzebox is that it comes with a bootloader to load games off of an SD card, so an ISP programmer is not exactly required unless the bootloader needs to be updated or unless you want to flash a game directly to it.

Something that bothers me is that the controller connectors are not standard, although it functions similar to an NES controller, so a converter can be made. The Uzebox uses SNES connectors and can use original or reproduction SNES controllers.
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paul
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Re: Trying to decide whether this or the XGS PIC is best for me

Post by paul »

You can experiment with the Uzebox emulator for free. Some guy on here wrote all his games from start to finish on the emulator, and then programmed them onto the hardware later on. If you don't like the Uzebox after playing with the emulator for a while, then you'll have made your decision. But if you do choose the Uzebox, then you can build it yourself from the ground up and get a little more into that hardware aspect that you mentioned.

Just remember to start with a small project. Even a small project manages to throw a surprising number of challenges at you.
Blue Protoman
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Re: Trying to decide whether this or the XGS PIC is best for me

Post by Blue Protoman »

Hm...interesting. Seems that this thing actually has more community support than the XGS does, hah. Go figure. Maybe I'll read up on some tutorials and check out the emulator, though I dunno how much that would help me make or break a purchase.
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