Uzebox Xmega Project!

Topics regarding the Uzebox hardware/AVCore/BaseBoard (i.e: PCB, resistors, connectors, part list, schematics, hardware issues, etc.) should go here.
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nebososo
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Re: Uzebox Xmega Project!

Post by nebososo »

Having to rewrite uzem would take quite some time and make write games much harder :( . Also, we'd need a new kernel and it's most likely that we'd depend on Uze to do most of the work.
Well... I wouldn't mind working on uzem if we upgraded to either one.
Also I don't think we need that much more flash and ram. So I'd vote for the AtXMega
hpglow
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:06 am

Re: Uzebox Xmega Project!

Post by hpglow »

All points well taken Uze. Possibly it is best just to keep refining the current setup, and wait for a better solution to come along. There is no real need to rush things. In the end Uze you carry most of the burden on your shoulders so I wouldn't feel right pushing you in any direction.

The Arm route is always compelling, but then you would have to build a new kernel and pretty much resolve yourself to the fact that there will be no software compatability.

What would really make me happy is if there were an ATMega with like 1M of ram. The current chip gives us processing power on a NES level and a ram space to work in simular to an Atari 2600 ( ok that is an exaguration, it only could store 128 bytes.) Some like this type of challenge, but I found it to be frustrating.
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cosam
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Re: Uzebox Xmega Project!

Post by cosam »

The way I see it, with the Uzebox we have something comparable to an 8-bit, 3rd generation console like the NES. Its natural successor would therefore be more like a 4th generation 16-bitter. More CPU power, RAM and Flash of course, more and larger sprites, greater colour depth (possibly with palettes) and improved sound. Yes, it would require a completely new design but it would be possible to create some really impressive games on such a platform, whilst still being doable by an individual or a small team. Real backward compatibility would likely be out of the window, but some kind of compatibility mode and an implementation of the original API would go a long way. Then again, were there any real 4th gen consoles that ran the games of their predecessors as-is?

I wouldn't worry too much about using SMT parts either - pretty much everything with any marked increase in power is likely to be in some kind of QFP. They are however actually a lot easier to work with than they look and there are reliable techniques for soldering them by hand.

Just my $0.02,

Steve
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mapes
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Re: Uzebox Xmega Project!

Post by mapes »

I like the backwards compatibility of the Xmegas (or if I dare to mention the Atmega1284p).

I also like the idea of creating a game with SNES style or even PS1 quality 2D graphics. But I feel it will create a lot more work for developers in the long run. If you are working with super nintendo graphics, but I'm not sure how many people will want to make games with even Super Nintendo depth [not referring to story only] (I mean, how many games have even Nintendo game depth that we really like (See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=971) From that list, I see Tetris (which Uze's is way better than the Nes Tetris) and Dr Mario.

Lee's Mega Bomber game is excellent in trying to get everything out of the multiplayer aspect of a fantastic game and even pushed the envelope making it SNES style graphics already.

Uze Feud is a good game, but sadly, it was not on our list of recommended Nes games above. It is a "type" of game that you always find in used games stores, value village, good will, or other second hand store establishments and generally they go for 1 or 2 dollars. I don't want to say how many times I've passed up a jeopardy, wheel of fortune, or similar game while looking for more coveted games that still hold a $20 or even $40 value.

-Mapes
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paul
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Re: Uzebox Xmega Project!

Post by paul »

It sounds like fun to make it as powerful as possible, but I don't know if people are put-off making games for the current Uzebox because it has such limitations, or if they like it because it has such limitations. For me, if you make a hobby project too good, then I will just use a professional one. You could hope that a really powerful Uzebox successor would help to bring about more community games as the effort required to make games would increase substantially, but then look at the community Castlevania project... ;)
I'll express my though as pro and cons, I'd be glad to hear what the community thinks.
Whichever one makes you think "that would be so cool if I built..." :)
Jeroen
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Re: Uzebox Xmega Project!

Post by Jeroen »

The most powerfull possible would be something like a PCB full of intel core I7 CPU with some TB's memory and a closet full of SSD's :)

I haven't done any programming for the uzebox yet, it's about time I start with it though, but I'm full with idea's.

One of it would be make a good/better fat16 support. If I'm correct there is still no fragmentation support.
When the fat16 with fragmentation support fits in a few kB's and some game engine is also a few kB's and you place the game data aligned with the flash block size you can try to load diffent gamedata while praying the game.
That way you're not limited to 62kB anymore and can make bigger games. Adventure game with a big world?

Another would be making a small bootloader that loads a second stage bootloader from sdcard and starts it. When the user made a selection which game to start, the second stage bootloader makes a list of sector addresses and place them in memory (max 62kB is only 124 addresses of max 4 bytes each so max of 0.5kB is needed) and calls a function of the first stage bootloader that loads and flashes the data.

But again, I haven't done anything on the uzebox yet, just a very few things on a jeenode (arduino compatible).
McNugget
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Re: Uzebox Xmega Project!

Post by McNugget »

use666, I read all the posts and have a couple of STM32 Cortex M3 laying around.
I love AVRs for their simplicity and how powerful they really can be. For most simple things (and even such complex tasks like your Uzebox) they are really cool! Also they don't use that much energy.

But on the other hand an STM is extremly fast. It is really nice and in some way even easier to program because parts of the firmware that is available does all the setup work for you. And since it is quick the interrups don't seem to overrun themselfs that often.
I programmed both systems for some time - but AVR a lot longer - and must say: The main work will of course be the Kernel.
If you need RAM: You can plug it in. Same with the XMEGA. Both have also DMA....

In my mind its totally your decision because you will write most of the kernel. I can only guess that it will be much easier to port the existing kernel to the XMEGA but is the easiest way always the best?

I believe for a real upgrade I would go big. You know sooo much about the AVR now - I think its time for a new challenge :)
Why should you bother to get 50% more speed and features with the XMEGA when you could get 200% to 400% with the STM? Ok, NES -> SNES... I see the point. But 368SX to 468DX? That was a huge difference :)

Maybe you should at least try to build a STM prototype and then decide if its worth the time. You will see how quickly you can get to a point where you are able to present something useful.


Best regards and keep up the good work!
Timo
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Harty123
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Re: Uzebox Xmega Project!

Post by Harty123 »

Hi,

I vote for ARM Cortex too!!!!

I found this interesting project:

http://rossum.posterous.com/20131601

It based on a NXP LPC Expresso kit with a NXP Cortex M0... This controllers are very cheap <1US$ ...


Another interesting ARM cortex M0 comes from nuvoton from Taiwan. You can buy very cheap dev kits from Digikey:

http://www.nuvoton.com/NuvotonMOSS/Comm ... 3449500ce7

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea ... SDK-120-ND

This kit contains a JTAG debugger and compiler without any branding for 19.95 US$


Another point against XMEGA: In my real job we use many, many AVR and have very good connections to Atmel and related distributers. All distributers say
the XMEGAs have no future - in German we would say "Rohrkrepierer". This chip comes 10 years too late! I visited also workshops from Atmel distributers for XMEGA - but this was an flop, because all developers and the tutor !!! discussed pro ARM cortex from Atmel and agaist XMEGA...

-Harty
hpglow
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Re: Uzebox Xmega Project!

Post by hpglow »

Here is an interesting somewhat off-topic idea. Raspberrypi.org is supposed to be comming out with a ARM based PC that will cost only $25 (there website goes down alot because it is getting tons of press.) I know that would defeat the purpose of building the box yourself, but with a custom OS it could be real easy and nice for the hobbyest game programmer. We could make a Uzebox 1.0 emulator for it and have all the current games run on it as well.
Tinctu
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:22 pm

Re: Uzebox Xmega Project!

Post by Tinctu »

off topic to XMEGA...

ARMUze (Based on RBox):
Codename: "Winterstorm"

CPU: SOC - ARM Cortex (or another cheap ARM SOC)
VIDEO: 320 x 240 x 256 colors
VIDEO OUT: Composite video output (or S-VIDEO)
VIDEO-SWITCH: COMPOSITE (NTSC, PAL - switch)
AUDIO: 8 bit 15khz stereo audio
AUDIO OUT: Stereojack
STORAGE: SD-CARDS
GAMEPORT: 2 x NUNCHUCK port
MODE GAMEPORT SWITCH: vertical (mini microswitch pushbutton - mode 1 - nunchuk mode 2 - wii gamepad)
GAME STORAGE: SD-CARD (bootloader+SD CARD menu)
LOADING: White LED
PCB: White PCB mask
RESET: subminiature push buton switch (horizontal)
PSU: PSU-IN port
long screws + distance rings
laser cutted acrylic case (botom and up) with nice LOGO laser engraved...
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