1284P addon

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1284P addon

Postby DaveyPocket » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:43 pm

I think most of us here have wanted to experiment with using the ATmega1284P with its vast amount of available RAM and program space (compared to the 644 that is)

The goal of this 1284P addon is to take any Uzebox that accepts the 40-pin DIP package of the AVR and easily attached the device without modifying any of the existing hardware.

Here is what I have so far(open image in new window/tab if it appears chopped):
Image
Image

The only problem I see with making this hardware is the cost. The expansion requires its own voltage regulator circuit and resistors and other parts all over. May not be too bad of a price, but some may not buy. Also, AVcore users won't be able to install on the boards due to surface mount components.
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Re: 1284P addon

Postby martinsustek » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:21 pm

Hi, it's good news, that idea of Uzebox with 1284 is not dead. I hope that double memory means potential for better games.

But why are you doing it that hard way (instead of changing only ATmega, maybe stabilisator and resistors)? Is the RGB/NTSC chip that problem?
How is it with SCART version? Is there a need for another power source only for chip or whole board can work with raised voltage (eventually with changed resistors in D/A and SD)?
What I want is to change 644 with 1284 in my EUzebox, and I think that it can be done without big adapter and another power source.
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Re: 1284P addon

Postby HardlyUnique » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:28 pm

Wow, this is a very cool take on the problems inherent in upgrading the Uzebox!

Can you please give more info? Like a schematic? What voltage does the chip run at? What kind of success rates have you seen?

I'm excited! :mrgreen:
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Re: 1284P addon

Postby DaveyPocket » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:41 pm

martinsustek wrote:Hi, it's good news, that idea of Uzebox with 1284 is not dead. I hope that double memory means potential for better games.

But why are you doing it that hard way (instead of changing only ATmega, maybe stabilisator and resistors)? Is the RGB/NTSC chip that problem?
How is it with SCART version? Is there a need for another power source only for chip or whole board can work with raised voltage (eventually with changed resistors in D/A and SD)?
What I want is to change 644 with 1284 in my EUzebox, and I think that it can be done without big adapter and another power source.


The problem with overclocking the ATmega1284 chips is that power needs to be increased. If the power going into the ATmega chip is, for example, around 6 volts which is a stable operating voltage, then the ATmega will output around 6 volts. This means that the video, SPI, audio, and other outputs will have increased voltage and potentially affect other devices. I have experienced this problem with my monitor and with the AD725 chip. When levels for my RGB monitor reach above 5 volts, the image gets quite flickery and slightly washed out. For the AD725, I have had unstable picture once (voltage may have been too high, or breadboard was messed up :? ). The higher voltage may even affect the controllers, not sure though, but I'm pretty sure they can handle up to 6 at least. The idea of making the expansion was that the base hardware would not have to change design so it can fit in Uzebox, Fuzebox, EUzebox, Uzebox JAMMA, anything else made that fits the 644 40-pin DIP package. I plan to make the expansion a whole lot smaller, this is just a prototype design. With the Uzebox JAMMA, it takes power from the same power line. The Uzebox JAMMA uses a 5 volt regulator to step from 12 volts to 5 volts. The regulator from the expansion boards takes the same 12 volts and steps it to around 5.85 volts, only give the higher power to the 1284 chip, the resistors and other components help step down outputs to 5 volts.

Maybe I could re-do the power circuit to step-up voltage to 5.85 volts instead of regulating the 12 volt line. I noticed that some (or all?) of the Uzebox console designs use a 5 volt adapter.

HardlyUnique wrote:What kind of success rates have you seen?


From previous experimentation, I have had about 95% successful operation at 5.9 volts. When the voltage is lowered to about 5.75 to 5.85, it boots up and displays the logo, then it either keeps resetting, continues with the game, or freezes and displays garbage all over the screen. I will have a schematic soon, I'm still working on the design, not finalized yet.

One final word is the differences in the clock fuses on the chip and different crystal oscillators used makes a difference in success rate during operation, I will make another post about it with more detailed information.
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Re: 1284P addon

Postby hpglow » Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:07 am

Very nice! Once you get this all finalized someone will need to update the emulator, and provide a shell project.
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Re: 1284P addon

Postby martinsustek » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:02 pm

Ok, I understood.

Still I think, that computing new resistor values is better for new design, but in case of old boards your addon may be good.
Here, in CZ is problem to get 1284, but I want it, so if you're planning to make some kit or sell it as assembled and tested product, or you have some 1284's that you don't want, don't forget on me.

I think it could be small finally (like AVCore for example, with power circuit on board), connected to original 644 socket and input power by 1 wire. I don't know how much does it cost, but maybe some factory can produce low quantity with SMD parts.

Are you planning some trimmer-regulated power source, to be able to set voltage precisly for needs of each chip, or all chips work on same voltage?

They (Atmel) says, that maximum voltage is 5,5. What do you think about long-term endurance of over-voltaged chips? Does they heat abnormally at that comditions?
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Re: 1284P addon

Postby DaveyPocket » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:24 am

martinsustek wrote:Ok, I understood.

Still I think, that computing new resistor values is better for new design, but in case of old boards your addon may be good.
Here, in CZ is problem to get 1284, but I want it, so if you're planning to make some kit or sell it as assembled and tested product, or you have some 1284's that you don't want, don't forget on me.

I think it could be small finally (like AVCore for example, with power circuit on board), connected to original 644 socket and input power by 1 wire. I don't know how much does it cost, but maybe some factory can produce low quantity with SMD parts.

Are you planning some trimmer-regulated power source, to be able to set voltage precisly for needs of each chip, or all chips work on same voltage?

They (Atmel) says, that maximum voltage is 5,5. What do you think about long-term endurance of over-voltaged chips? Does they heat abnormally at that comditions?


The chips I'm using right now are the ATmega1284P, not the regular 1284 (P is for picoPower, according to Atmel). Last time I checked, Digi-key did not stock the regular 1284 chip, only the 1284P chip. I will check Mouser and various other sites. If all goes well and results are nice, I may make a kit/pre-assembled board to addon and sell, I will also provide schematics and various other information for those that wish to create the addon themselves. If I have spare chips, I will try to distribute to those who don't have access to them easily.

For the power supply, it will be adjustable due to the many types of power supplies and Uzebox consoles out there.

I haven't given much thought to Atmel's max voltage specification and the current overclock voltage. The longest I've had one of my setups running was about 15 minutes and I did not experience any problems during gameplay. Now that you mention it, I will run a series of tests to determine if these chips can last a long time with the voltage level above the max specification. As for the chips overheating, they do not. Warmth can be felt at the center of the chip (though this happens with my 644), so it runs at an average temperature as the 644 chips do, though I will test this.

One more thing: On one of my very early tests, I ramped up the voltage to, I believe, around 6.25v before the chip burned itself out.
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Re: 1284P addon

Postby uze6666 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:03 am

The chips I'm using right now are the ATmega1284P, not the regular 1284 (P is for picoPower, according to Atmel). Last time I checked, Digi-key did not stock the regular 1284 chip, only the 1284P chip. I will check Mouser and various other sites. If all goes well and results are nice, I may make a kit/pre-assembled board to addon and sell, I will also provide schematics and various other information for those that wish to create the addon themselves. If I have spare chips, I will try to distribute to those who don't have access to them easily.

I've tested those 1284 in the past, the only supplier I could ever find that has some in stock is AVNET. They did not yield better results than the 1284p, slightly worst I'd even say. It appears to not only be a question of pico-power, seems to use a different manufacturing process than the 644. Could also be that I got an early "unstable" batch. Could be worth ordering more to test it out...

-Uze
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Re: 1284P addon

Postby Flecko » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:02 pm

Hey Davey,

Any chance that you'd post a schematic or hand sketched drawing of the circuit? I'm interested to see exactly how you implemented the voltage divider/reducer and resistors.

Not a rush, just curious.
Glad you're keeping the hope alive for a 128k EEPROM version of the Uzebox.
Thanks!
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Re: 1284P addon

Postby Harty123 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:45 pm

martinsustek wrote:Ok, I understood.

Still I think, that computing new resistor values is better for new design, but in case of old boards your addon may be good.
Here, in CZ is problem to get 1284, but I want it, so if you're planning to make some kit or sell it as assembled and tested product, or you have some 1284's that you don't want, don't forget on me.

I think it could be small finally (like AVCore for example, with power circuit on board), connected to original 644 socket and input power by 1 wire. I don't know how much does it cost, but maybe some factory can produce low quantity with SMD parts.

Are you planning some trimmer-regulated power source, to be able to set voltage precisly for needs of each chip, or all chips work on same voltage?

They (Atmel) says, that maximum voltage is 5,5. What do you think about long-term endurance of over-voltaged chips? Does they heat abnormally at that comditions?


very interesting :mrgreen:

The idea with the DIP40 PCB with SMD 1284 sounds very doable. In my opinion the best way for the 5.9V is a small step-up converter on this board which makes 5.9V from 5.0V...

For first experiments especially with the EUzebox two diodes between PIN2 and GND of the 7805 can increment the output voltage to nearly 6V without another regulator. In this case you have only to change the resistors in the RGB network - thats all.

-Harty

P.S. I'm not to familar with the 1284. Do we need a recompilation of all existing games for this Controller or do we have only to set a special fuse (like in the ATMEGA8515 for the former AT90S8515) ?
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