Dont like the UZEbox

Discuss general Uzebox topics here: features, wish list. nice to have, etc.
Micha1982
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:38 am

Dont like the UZEbox

Post by Micha1982 »

Hello :D
My english is bad, sorry :)
I have to tell that i dont like this development! The community doesn´t need something like that!

No Software does exist, nothing *lol* (yes, some demos and some simple games :D )!
I can buy a SNES for 20€ on Ebay, for some extra money tons of really good (!) games which are testet and working fine!
For less than 50€ i have a good console which provides unbelievable lots of fun! and what is the price for the UZE-box?

"I expect the next Uzebox demo to beat this :-)"- SuperCPU is available for the C64which provides 20MHz :mrgreen:
Does the UZE-box beat that???

Total RAM: 4K
Program Memory: 64K

SuperCpu or 1541Ultimate provides up to 16MB (!) Ram :mrgreen:

In my opinion people should invest their development-knowledge in developing new games for SCPU or the C64 instead of this useless UZEbox 8-) People could use cc65 to program in C 8-)

Correct me if im wrong :mrgreen:

EDIT:: Dont tell me SCPU isnt available - but 1541Ultimate is available and SCPU-mode is planned :D
"That's really why I like the uzebox and similar things, its a chance to get back to the roots and experience the relative hardships of the way things used to be, and I think that makes you a better developer." - then please use a C64!The scene is splitting more and more - this couldnt be good!
rlaw
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:19 am

Re: Dont like the UZEbox

Post by rlaw »

I'll assume this is not just flamebait but perhaps a devil's advocate who wants to spur some praise of the Uzebox. I'll give the reasons I'm impressed with it:
  • Open source hardware and software
  • Simple design--only two chips
  • Cheap
  • Helpful and active community
  • I'm interested in learning to program MCUs anyway
  • Nostalgic
  • Fun
Micha1982
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:38 am

Re: Dont like the UZEbox

Post by Micha1982 »

:twisted:
* Open source hardware and software
* Simple design--only two chips
* Cheap
* Helpful and active community
* I'm interested in learning to program MCUs anyway
* Nostalgic
* Fun

:D
A C64 is nostalgic too, C64 makes lots of fun an there is an active community and 26 years of experience with that computer!
C64 is cheap and has a simple design, too!
And if a C64 has not enough power then buy a 1541Ultimate - maybe software will be open source in future!
On 1541U/SCPU you can learn to program the 65816 and learn on 1541U to program VHDL! In my opinion UZEbox is only splitting the scene, which is quite small...everyone is brewing his own soup! Better support existing hardware than splitting the market more and more!
ravyne
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:59 pm

Re: Dont like the UZEbox

Post by ravyne »

While you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I suspect this is the last place on earth you're likely to find any sympathizers. If you don't like it, fine, go back to your c64 forums. I have tons of respect for the c64, it was one of my very early computing experiences that brought me (and likely others here) to where I am now. I have continued respect for the scene, which produces ever more amazing demos every year.

The Uzebox is not a SNES any more than the c64 is, so stop making asinine comparisons. if I want a system to play great oldschool games on, the SNES is an excellent choice, but if I want a really neat, entirely open platform to dink around with and have utterly complete control of the video output, there's Uzebox. Once a few more people have units to program we'll see some really neat stuff, I'm in the midst of prototyping what I think will be one of the early graphical "WOW" demos for uzebox, and its going to be cool. I'm also amassing parts to prototype a system that will be maybe 3-5 times more powerful than the uzebox in the end, but that doesn't negate what the Uzebox is, nor will it ever, just as the Uzebox will never negate the c64, or the SNES, or whatever else you compare it against.

The Uzebox now is not in its final encarnation, the chip that's being used to prototype only has half the program memory and a quarter of the RAM, but it really has CPU power in spades -- I'd estimate it at 8+ times the raw CPU power of the base c64, and up to 2 times as powerful as even the SuperCPU, so aside from RAM, it holds no advantage -- besides, if you're so "scene" what the hell are you doing with 16 megs of RAM anyhow?

Since you quote me at the bottom, I'll respond directly -- The uzebox doesn't split the scene, it expands it. "the scene" is not about blind faith to a particular platform, but about the unique hardware it posses and how it can be exploited in creative and amazing ways which push the hardware to the limits. The Uzebox, even if it grew to overshadow the c64 scene, will never replace it for that very reason. Different hardware, different exploits, and a different way of thinking. Some will always be drawn to both, and will both do amazing things. You should love that, and appreciate that, about the demo scene as a whole.


If your post was meant as tongue-in-cheek praise for the Uzebox, then I blame my misinterpretation on your poor grasp of irony in english, and if not... Well, may Uzebox powered robots overrun your country and enslave your countrymen :lol:
ravyne
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:59 pm

Re: Dont like the UZEbox

Post by ravyne »

The C64, comparably, is *not* a simple design, further you keep touting it as such while also advocating expanding it with the SuperCPU and appearantly an FPGA as well, do you even have a clear reason in mind as to why you oppose the Uzebox? Go open up a c64 and count the chips, then tell me how that compares to the two it takes to make an Uzebox. Again, the c64 is great, and had a long, long history; it deserves a great deal of respect for what it is, but that doesn't mean that other hardware should be disrespected. Different strokes for different folks, if you can't respect that, then I have no time for you.

Again, in terms of demos, the uzebox only differs from the c64 in that it has a different set of restrictions and limitations, the only major philisophical difference is that on the c64 its all about exploiting the various hardware -- The SID, the Blitter -- while that stuff is all defined in software on the Uzebox, so you're free to write your own Sound and graphics engine if you're clever enough.

Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder about the Uzebox anyhow? Too many c64ers at your favorite forums threatening to jump ship or are you afraid your precious c64 might get shown up?
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uze6666
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Re: Dont like the UZEbox

Post by uze6666 »

Hey Ravyne, great answer! I totally agree with all you said. What' most funny here is that the Uzebox was never conceived as a demo platform. Only as a simple and cheap DYI console leveraging what I consider one of the best microcontroller out there. Its also a terrific learning tool for anyone interested in embed development. 10-15 few years ago it was almost unthinkable that the average guy could build all kind of cool devices with microcontrollers. Now we have Arduinos, Uzebox and the likes. Heck did you know they already sold more than 50,000 Arduinos so far! Not bad for an open hardware project...

So...how could we threaten "the scene" with that is anyone guess. So, me too,I think he must have been joking. If not, its a damn good troll! ;)

-Alec
havok1919
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Re: Dont like the UZEbox

Post by havok1919 »

I'm surprised by how much time I've actually spent contemplating this thread. At first I was thinking that it was just the natural side-effect of the US Elections wrapping up next week-- the endless discussion over which presidential candidate is better will obviously have to spill over somewhere, so why not just wind up in a Uzebox v. C64 debate.

Then I thought, "no, maybe it's just a crazy person". Ever since AOL started letting just anyone get on the usenet newsgroups the entire internet went to hell in a handbasket, so that's a definite possibility.

Finally it dawned on me that it's actually someone lavishing praise on the Uzebox's virtues through hyperbole and comparison to the C64.

Then he did a follow-up post.

So that means either he's serious, or a troll. The plot thickens.

Many good Uzebox virtues have already been posted, but a few that occur to me:

1) You can build a totally new Uzebox with off the shelf parts and have no loss of performance/authenticity compared to the original (it is the original).

2) A complete Uzebox system can fit inside the space bar of a C-64.

3) You can power the Uzebox off a $3 (USD), 10 gram, Lithium Polymer battery and not need an oscilloscope to measure the amount of time it runs before the battery is exhausted.

4) The Uzebox is Earth friendly. You could run over 50 Uzeboxen off of just the power lost in voltage regulation in the C64 power supply. Using a C64 is single-handedly leading to the death of the planet and extinction of humanity. Let's see how your chip-tune demo coding goes when you're sitting in 12" of water from the ice caps melting, Dieter.

5) Zombies are totally afraid of the Uzebox. 'Nuff said.

-Clay
nubie
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:51 am

Re: Dont like the UZEbox

Post by nubie »

While I would love an NES that was 2-chip simple, I really don't see it happening.

If you are using a display that takes RGB then you can even skip the second chip, it is freaking cheap and simple.

SD support, this is amazing, you can get flash support for storing your program for about the price of an SD slot.

Just because I wish that an NES on a single chip was available, it isn't (barring some Chinese Pirate Ships), and even if it was, would it have onboard flash and support for SD cards while costing $20 brand new? I didn't think so.

Not to dump on other scenes, but this single chip and resistor network RGB as a console really have me excited (must be the engineer in me, simplicity and elegant design).
EmperorWilli
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Re: Dont like the UZEbox

Post by EmperorWilli »

Hey :),
I just found this site and I can't agree with him. I'm totally interested in such stuff and I also want to work with microcontrollers and electronics when I've got my master (actually I go to university next year, as I have to do one more year school^^). I think this project is really great for learning to programm and work with mcs and also to understand the basics of how such a machine (like the c64..) works and I'm going to get the stuff to build me one as soon as I've got enough sparetime. Furthermore I think such a little platform like this doesn't really harm the scene but add new aspects to it as for example this new C64 thingy, the project of tlf (click me hard) or this demos on this pokemon game things.

@ Havok: Just a tip, his name is micha or michael, as you can see from his nick... detlev is not really spread in germany and it's also said to be a name for homosexuals :D. (I guess he's from germany or a country where german is spoken, as i read a similar post as his on a german c64 board this afternoon)
havok1919
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Re: Dont like the UZEbox

Post by havok1919 »

EmperorWilli wrote:@ Havok: Just a tip, his name is micha or michael, as you can see from his nick... detlev is not really spread in germany and it's also said to be a name for homosexuals :D. (I guess he's from germany or a country where german is spoken, as i read a similar post as his on a german c64 board this afternoon)
Ya, ich versteh es. ;-)

I was actually making a little wink and nod reference to a comic strip over here called "Get Fuzzy" (http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/). In one of the older strips the characters were making fun of Euro/German style techno/club music. Bucky (the cat), who is rude on the best of days, finishes off the conversation with "Ha-ha, buy a guitar, Dieter". I doubt anyone else caught the reference, but it still makes me laugh. :lol:

-Clay
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